<p>祖大寿也算对得起明朝了吧</p>

<p>祖大寿对得起明朝，崇祯对不起祖大寿。</p>

<p>是明朝对不起祖大寿<br>崇祯就是昏君</p>

<p>辽西将门的缩影。</p><p>不要随便贴标签，晚明很多将领，打是认真打，捞是认真捞，重要的是，同时是家族财产生意的支柱。而辽西最重要的生意，是与后金蒙古的生意。</p><p>一般不会轻易投降，因为投降给不了自己和家族利益好处，三顺王也是走投无路才降，吴三桂到最后都想着首鼠两端而不是直接降，大势所趋没办法。祖大寿第一次被俘，若降了整个家族和商业都得完蛋。</p><p>要考虑整个时代背景。熊廷弼第一次经略辽东，明确提出辽人不可用不可信，孙承宗反其道，用辽人守辽土，用辽土养辽人，但是相对来说约束还行。他曾经因为祖大寿阳奉阴违作战不积极想杀了他，但是下手很难。</p><p>要到孙承宗走后，祖大寿才慢慢升迁。同时，祖家和吴家开始发迹。起码祖家出了很多将领，吴襄根本是个纯商人。</p><p>祖大寿挺能打的，重要的是他养着庞大的家丁队伍，招募了上千的蒙古人，最多时可能有几千，作战力强悍。但养家丁，靠朝廷军饷是不可能的，除了靠将领贪污克扣，还得靠家族的生意，相辅相成。</p><p>辽西也好，东江也好，大家都这么玩，不是他一个。论打仗还是积极的，祖家的人，调入关内镇压流寇，也是很积极很能打的。</p><p>但是，后金是个无法养活自己的“国家”，如果没有劫掠和走私贸易，后金早就嗝屁了。</p>

<p>若非华表留名姓，谁识元戎事两朝。</p>

<p>两度吃人肉跟清军打，已经够可以了，他对得起朱明，但是朱明对不起他</p>

<p>只论军事能力，祖大寿比明粉口中的那群关内名将强太多了，只是因为最后投降了，所以没啥人吹</p>

<p>一代名将，据关外，收关内，堪称往复有忠义</p><p>两朝贰臣，悖前主，负后主，真个里外不是人</p><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1332002IMG_3615.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1332002IMG_3615.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1332002IMG_3615.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_146082IMG_3614.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_146082IMG_3614.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_146082IMG_3614.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1638122IMG_3616.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1638122IMG_3616.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1638122IMG_3616.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_219913IMG_3617.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_219913IMG_3617.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_219913IMG_3617.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_17289IMG_3618.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_17289IMG_3618.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_17289IMG_3618.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_228492IMG_3619.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_228492IMG_3619.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_228492IMG_3619.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_181365IMG_3620.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_181365IMG_3620.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_181365IMG_3620.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_19142IMG_3623.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_19142IMG_3623.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_19142IMG_3623.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div><div><center class="hupu-img"  data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_203229IMG_3622.png?x-oss-process=image/format,png"  data_url="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_203229IMG_3622.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_1000/format,png"  src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_203229IMG_3622.png?x-oss-process=image/resize,w_600/format,jpg/quality,Q_60"  ></center></div>

一代名将，据关外，收关内，堪称往复有忠义两朝贰臣，悖前主，负后主，真个里外不是人

如何评价历史人物祖大寿？

埃及法老图坦卡蒙

<p>一代名将，据关外，收关内，堪称往复有忠义</p><p>两朝贰臣，悖前主，负后主，真个里外不是人</p><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1332002IMG_3615.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1332002IMG_3615.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_146082IMG_3614.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_146082IMG_3614.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1638122IMG_3616.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_1638122IMG_3616.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_219913IMG_3617.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_219913IMG_3617.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_17289IMG_3618.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_17289IMG_3618.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_228492IMG_3619.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_228492IMG_3619.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_181365IMG_3620.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_181365IMG_3620.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_19142IMG_3623.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_19142IMG_3623.png"></p></div><div class="slate-image" style="margin:0 auto"><p><img data-origin="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_203229IMG_3622.png" src="https://i5.hoopchina.com.cn/hupuapp/bbs/578/94901578/1690801347_203229IMG_3622.png"></p></div>

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